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Remotely tagging songs

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  • #400
    ToF
    Guest

    Hi!
    first post here, so to begin with: thanks for the great work.

    I may be wrong but there is no way currently to remotely tag a track via mt-daap.
    All my music is on a remote server and I don’t want to use an incoming/production directory organisation so well-tagged and badly-tagged songs are all in same place on the server. Therefore I often find the mistagged songs while I’m listening/searching for them and it would be much less pain if I could edit the tags right in my client application (in my case Rhythmbox on a linux box)

    I guess it would be possible to do this with plugins equivalent to the existing metadata parsers system, and expose the feature via a server extension (like those for adding playlists)

    I think it could be a great alternative to something like a web based solution, particularly for smoother integration in client applications (of course those would have to be hacked a little to support the extensions).

    What do you think ?

    #5326
    rpedde
    Participant

    @ToF wrote:

    Hi!
    first post here, so to begin with: thanks for the great work.

    I may be wrong but there is no way currently to remotely tag a track via mt-daap.
    All my music is on a remote server and I don’t want to use an incoming/production directory organisation so well-tagged and badly-tagged songs are all in same place on the server. Therefore I often find the mistagged songs while I’m listening/searching for them and it would be much less pain if I could edit the tags right in my client application (in my case Rhythmbox on a linux box)

    I guess it would be possible to do this with plugins equivalent to the existing metadata parsers system, and expose the feature via a server extension (like those for adding playlists)

    I think it could be a great alternative to something like a web based solution, particularly for smoother integration in client applications (of course those would have to be hacked a little to support the extensions).

    What do you think ?

    Yup, that’s something that on the milestone list for 1.1, but we’ll see where it gets. Doing tag writing for a whole range of different file types might be hard. Might end up consolidating to a single tag reader/writer like taglib or something.

    It’s something actively under consideration, though.

    — Ron

    #5327
    grommet
    Participant

    Not only hard, but dangerous… due to the lack of “true” standards and creative usage of overly flexible formats. It’s an absolute nightmare to maintain compatibility and interoperability between various other media products, especially when you support a large list of formats like Firefly does today.

    IMHO, I’d make it very low on the target list. It opens up a huge can of worms…

    #5328
    rpedde
    Participant

    @grommet wrote:

    Not only hard, but dangerous… due to the lack of “true” standards and creative usage of overly flexible formats. It’s an absolute nightmare to maintain compatibility and interoperability between various other media products, especially when you support a large list of formats like Firefly does today.

    IMHO, I’d make it very low on the target list. It opens up a huge can of worms…

    As a first-pass, I was actually thinking of saving new metainfo to the “side” of the file, and writing contrib scripts to merge saved metainfo back into the file. So it might be stored in a “.tag” file (or whatever) with the same name as the song.

    Would be non-destructive, although messy.

    #5329
    ToF
    Guest

    maybe I’m totally wrong as i don’t know firefly’s internals but I figure it can be pretty safely implemented.

    If you have a server extension that says change the (say artist) tag of this song then if there is a tag writter installed that supports this tag for this particular song format then tag writting is done else nothing is changed.

    Moreover it’s really an “extra” functionnality and those who don’t trust it can choose not to use it. But maybe again it changes the server’s internals too drastically.

    The only thing where I see a difficulty is how to get the user feedback of what happened. I don’t know if the songs listing of a daap share can be “refreshed” without disconnecting/reconnecting. Maybe it’s a client issue.

    #5330
    rpedde
    Participant

    Doing it for mp3 files would probably be fairly easy. But for anything else, there is a problem of mapping types. WMA supports multiple artist tags, for example. Just plain READING tags turns out to be a harder problem than it seems, so writing them would be worse. I think that’s what the objection was, generally.

    #5331
    slu125
    Guest

    Thank you for this great program, Ron!

    Remote tagging capabilities would be really nice. Especially since my favorite music player Amarok is about to support daap (basic functionality is already implemented).

    #5332
    jjh
    Participant

    For me, being able to remotely tag my songs is a key feature to using firefly. Considering the last post in this thread was in July:

    What is the project’s current status concerning this feature?
    Is the remote tagging thing being worked on?
    Is it part of an upcoming milestone?

    I think I could maybe set apart some time to help build this feature, but I would certainly need some help and guidance, because I am totally new to the firefly project. What programming language was used to write firefly? If I were to implement the remote tagging feature, could I use a well-defined API to write a small plugin, or would I have to mess around with the server’s source?

    EDIT:
    oh, and yes, I am using OSX. On the website, it says “Support for Mac OSX (coming soon!)”. Do the nightlies work with OSX already?

    #5333
    fizze
    Participant

    yes, they do. 🙂

    #5334
    rpedde
    Participant

    @jjh wrote:

    What is the project’s current status concerning this feature?

    Not impelemented

    Is the remote tagging thing being worked on?

    No, not currently.

    Is it part of an upcoming milestone?

    Only in the sense that everything that hasn’t been added is destined to be added some time in the future. 🙂

    But no, not formally.

    I think I could maybe set apart some time to help build this feature, but I would certainly need some help and guidance, because I am totally new to the firefly project. What programming language was used to write firefly?

    It’s in C.

    If I were to implement the remote tagging feature, could I use a well-defined API to write a small plugin, or would I have to mess around with the server’s source?

    Right now there are only ill-defined apis. Only recently has the source been modularized into plugins, and more needs to be done. The database in particuarly still needs to be abstracted and moved to a plugin infrastructure.

    I think it would best be implemented first pass as a plugin, but there will be both server side and plugin side code to impelment — the server right now has no notion of a “write-back tag”, so the plumbing on the server side to route to a plugin would have to be written.

    oh, and yes, I am using OSX. On the website, it says “Support for Mac OSX (coming soon!)”. Do the nightlies work with OSX already?

    It’s always worked on osx as a posix app — I’ve developed it from day one on a mac. Recently there is a prefs pane and menu bar dingus for it, but it’s always worked from the terminal.

    I have some specified ideas about how I think this might be implemented. If you are seriously interested on working on it, you can contact me at [email protected].

    — Ron

    #5335
    jjh
    Participant

    a question to those of you who are already using firefly: how do you keep your music library up-to-date?
    e.g. if you find that you mispelled an artist, how do you change that? I am asking this because to me, being able to remotely tag songs seems almost necessary – I don’t know how I would do without. But maybe the remote-tagging-thing is not so much necessary? is there a workaround that you are using?

    so the question to those of you who are firefly already:
    do you edit your song tags? how?

    #5336
    Iris
    Participant

    There is so many media management programs out there that, in my opinion, I lot of development would have to go into Firefly to even come close to matching the features they have. I use MediaMonkey – in large part due to the ability to integrate scripts with the program. For instance, once I converted my music collection over to a NAS I found out that for playlists to be recognized by Firefly that the paths to the playlists tracks needed to be modified to be picked-up. This was a simple process under MediaMonkey. Another example, is playcounts. Firefly stores these in it’s own database. It’s on my to do list to have these populate back to MediaMonkey.

    That said, I do like Firefly’s smart playlist feature. This too is available within MediaMonkey but I’ve ended up using Firefly’s for certain instances and MediaMonkey’s for others. I guess it all depends on one’s listening habits.

    Hope this helps some.

    Iris

    #5337
    kenzo
    Participant

    @jjh wrote:

    a question to those of you who are already using firefly: how do you keep your music library up-to-date?

    so the question to those of you who are firefly already:
    do you edit your song tags? how?

    I use iTunes.

    #5338
    jjh
    Participant

    That’s interesting to hear, thank you for your feedback!

    @kenzo
    : Is your setup as follows: Many clients can listen via firefly, while only one can listen and edit by directly opening the library (because of iTunes’ library-locking behaviour)?

    @Iris
    : I went to check out mediamonkey, looks interesting to me, sad to see it is a win-only solution (we have macintosh computers at home)

    While thinking the discussion over, it came to me that there are (at least) two different usage scenarios – one does not need the remote editing thing, the other one does:

    1.) One PC for Listening&Importing&Editing and many Listen-only clients
    Server: This would be one computer in the home network where all music is stored – this computer would be used for importing new music into the library and for tag editing e.g. by directly opening the music library in iTunes. Clients: All other clients connect via firefly, but they are only used like a RokuSoundbridge kind of thing: Great for listening, but no importing/tagediting etc. In this scenario, there is no need for firefly to support tag editing.

    2.) One storage place and many computers to Listen&Import&Edit songs
    Server: This could be a NAS device running firefly to serve a music library for concurrent read/write access to a bunch of PCs/laptops. The NAS does not offer any user interface to import&edit music. Clients: Rather, importing&editing has to be done using the clients. In this scenario, it is crucial for firefly to support importing and editing of information.

    I hope I could crystallize two different scenarios of using firefly. When I became interested in firefly, I had scenario2 in mind. Has firefly been built with rather scenario1 in mind?

    My refined question to those of you already using firefly is:
    What is your usage scenario, what is your setup? Can you identify with scenario1 or 2?

    #5339
    CCRDude
    Participant

    I somehow don’t seem to get the problem here 😉

    I do have a SMB (CIFS) share on my NAS (using standard Samba), so I can use any ID3-Tagger (or Vorbis-Tagger or whatever) to change every file I like. Granted, I have to tell Firefly to rescan, or wait until it does this automatically, but with so many tagger applications out there, and every NAS having a way of accessing the files through the filesystem, isn’t some interface for “remote tagging” directly through Firefly a bit of overkill? Samba is a specialist in file networking, and there are a multitude of specialists in tagging, so why re-invent all that (unless iTunes would directly support remote tagging, which it doesn’t)?

    Speed may be the only reason – rewriting a file over a network connection may be slow through a NAS. But if you use an intelligent tagger that creates tags with a bit of padding, it’s much faster.

    I have just re-tagged my whole collection (nearly 20.000 songs) through a Samba share and ID3-TagIT and TagsRevisited, adding album art, artist URLs and fixing Genres, without any problems arising. Can’t put this into one of your scenarios though – who can edit and who not is not just “one” or “all”, but exactly those I give write access to the Samba share, making it possible for one person to add songs and update tags, and for others only to listen, just as I want.

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